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Most people tend to know you as an established justice. What was it like as a young lawyer?

That’s not true,
they knew me as a lawyer. I practiced all over Nigeria, Cameroun, and
justice was just one side of the story; we had more impact as lawyers.
Every lawyer will face a lot of challenges. When we were at the Bar,
for instance, we travelled for hours from Onitsha to Lagos for appeal
cases (there was no court of appeal in Enugu) and then if you have a
case in the north, you travel all the way. The train takes hours – two
days to Kaduna, two days from Kaduna to Lagos. So it was a really
trying time. Legal practice was very demanding. Since there were not
many lawyers, the few lawyers available were in great demand. And it
needed tough fibre to face such challenges. We did it until our
appointment to the bench.

Looking back at your career, is there anything you wish you could have done better?

I have few regrets.
I always wanted to be a lawyer. At first, we saw people like Udo Udoma
and (Samuel) Akintola (former premier of the Western region) who was at
the Bar before becoming a premier. We saw them performing and they were
really respected by the community. So it was the desire of every young
man to join the group of learned men. Then in most universities, you
can’t be called to the Bar unless you have a degree. I had a B.A in
history and a B.Sc in Economics before LL.B. So, having done history,
economics and law, you had a wide vision to look at a thing from the
economic angle, legal angle or social angle. Students nowadays are very
much in a hurry. Do a first degree and then LL.B. I wish they will do
that — widen the scope of those who want to be lawyers.

Nigerians have expressed worry about corruption and delay of cases in the courts. What is responsible for these?

Every country gets
the government it deserves. Corruption cannot exist in the judiciary if
it does not exist in the society. So the issue of corruption, we don’t
want to single out a particular group. Everybody is involved in it. If
a society is corrupt-free, it’s everybody’s benefit, and if it is
corrupt, it is to the detriment of everybody. It is a social evil and
the sooner we regard it as an evil, a plague, the better for Nigeria.
Corruption is bad and I don’t see what people get out of it because
those who are corrupt have not done more than those who are not
corrupt. You can only build houses and buy cars.

Tell us about your recent call for speedy trials of cases

If you want a
speedy trial, the lawyers will know what is there to put across.
Suppose we have a case about this house. This house is here, that’s a
fact. Why call three witnesses to prove that this house is here.
Alright, if there is a land case, the location of the land is in Lagos,
there is no dispute there. That should be taken as proved. The dispute
may be who owns the land. A says it is his father’s land, B says he
bought it from C. The question will be: has the man who sold the land
to you the power to sell? If these are deduced as issues, it becomes
easy and the case may not take more than two days. But now you go on a
rigmarole. A land is in Wuse, you call three witnesses to prove the
boundaries of the land which is not in dispute. If issues are properly
settled, no case will last more than three days.

What about corruption trials?

Why should cases of corruption be more important than other cases? It has been at the centre of Nigeria’s developmental failings.

I don’t know about
that. But before a good judge hears a case, he will insist on knowing
what they are asking him to do. Not beating about the bush for three
days. If you settle issues, you know issues in dispute, issues agreed.
Those agreed will be taken as proved. And if you look at it, only few
cases will have more than two contested issues.

What are your thoughts on the refusal of the government to act on the report of the Human Rights Violations Investigation panel?

Why not ask the
government. Why me? We submitted our reports. First of all, are you
sure they didn’t act on it? You are taking for granted that they didn’t
act on it. The mere fact they say we acted on it and the newspapers
will report does not mean they did not. Of course they did act on it.
My duty is to recommend; we submitted our reports and what they do with
it is their own headache, not mine.

Whether I am
satisfied or not is neither here nor there. We made recommendations
that will affect the interest of Nigerians. It is Nigerians who would
say whether they are satisfied after the Oputa panel investigations.

How about insinuations that some of the recommendations were against those in power then?

I don’t like
jumping into conclusions without facts. What were the issues of human
rights violations before the Oputa panel? What is the condition after?
To see whether government acted or not, is it better or worse? If the
conditions were worse, then they didn’t act on it. If the conditions
were a bit improved, then they acted on it.

Does the president need to sign the recently amended constitution?

I don’t like to be
dragged into a controversy that is raging. Let them finish, then we can
come and give our views. It will not be very fair to jump into a
controversy and start expressing your views. That may not be very
palatable. You have to be very careful not to make matters worse. The
place is heated already. When they finish, then we can have a post
mortem.

What do you think about cases of insecurity and kidnapping in parts of the country?

If the laws of a
society are strong enough to protect the citizens, if the economy is
sound enough to cater for the needs of the citizens, then some of these
things won’t happen. If a child goes to school, comes back and there is
no job and you have about five or six in one family roaming about. If
they cannot make it by lawful means, then they will try by unlawful
means. It’s not a legal issue; it’s a social issue. When it gets to a
point whereby living and dying is the same thing, then what are you
living for? Why not go and steal and then if you go to the prison, they
will feed you. You are better off there.